We chat to Radiolab's Latif Nasser about "The Other Latif"
How to put yourself in your story... effectively.
"In general, I don't particularly like putting my private self into stories. Over my approximately decade-long journalistic career, this is the only time I've done it," says Latif Nasser, the Director of Research and Co-host at Radiolab. He is also the creator and host of the investigative podcast The Other Latif.
The reason he chose to put himself and his personal details in The Other Latif was because he knew that they couldn't talk to Abdul Latif Nasser (the Guantanamo detainee with his name, he's the OTHER Latif). Also there was so little declassified information about him.
"I knew that listeners would have a hard time grasping his humanity. The team and I realized that the magic of the name coincidence was that somehow by telling more about myself, it would reflect back on him: the similarities of our stories, the differences, the poetry of it all."
Tip 1# - How to put yourself in your story... effectively
"We went over the storyboards so many times, cutting anything that felt navel-gazey or like too much projection," says Latif. "The boundary I set, in a way, was I only wanted to use my own story tactically as a way to illuminate his and the broader story of the world at the time. Anything that felt extraneous to that we cut."
The series follows the life of a Guantanamo detainee. But since the original series was released a major breakthrough has happened.
"Abdul Latif got out! He is now back home with his family in Casablanca, Morocco. So far he is the first and only detainee to get released from Guantanamo under the Biden administration. It was something we were expecting, just unsure when it would happen. We are hoping to interview him in person soon, just waiting until the COVID numbers go down a bit..."
"In terms of closing the story, I think it is almost done. That said, it does feel sort of a bit unrepresentative to have spotlighted one cleared Guantanamo detainee who got out when there are ten others who haven't, and even more who still haven't been formally charged or tried."
A lot of the narrative revolves around us feeling sympathy (or not) for the other Latif. And the producers manage this masterfully.
"We had to carefully keep track - as best we could - of listeners’ changing sympathies. Part of that effort was capturing our own journey as reporters. Our own minds kept changing about so many aspects of the story as we went along, and we wanted to recreate those ambivalent feelings for the listeners."
"We tried to imagine all manner of listeners to make the series as honest and respectful as possible," he says. "This included Abdul Latif’s family, families who had lost someone on 9/11, folks in the military, people listening outside the USA, ultimately even Abdul Latif Nasser himself."
LISTEN NOW: Radiolab’s Latif Nasser always believed his name was unique, singular, completely his own. Until one day when he makes a bizarre and shocking discovery. He shares his name with another man: Abdul Latif Nasser, detainee 244 at Guantanamo Bay.
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify
Tip 2# - How to work with the best
"I was so lucky to work with producer Suzie Lechtenberg who planned most of the travel, including and especially getting access to Guantanamo Bay. In turn we were also lucky during production to have the institutional winds at our back - the powers that be at NY Public Radio were really supportive of the project and let us have as much time and resources as the project demanded," says Latif.
"When we had a trip scheduled, Suzie and I - and producer Sarah Qari who was the third reporter/producer on our team - would just plan it all out hour by hour, figure out as many possible interviews and site visits we could cram in to our limited time."
The series is an incredible globe-trotting experience. "We weren't able to visit ALL the locations in the story," says Latif. "Those regions of Sudan and Afghanistan felt too dangerous at the moment we were reporting, but I do believe that nothing beats actually going to a place to really get the dimensions of it and play out the movie in your (and ultimately your listeners') mind."
"Interviews with former Guantanamo detainees were already VERY difficult for a number of reasons - not least because I'm asking a lot of the same questions that their interrogators asked them at Guantanamo."
"I recall being so apprehensive to interview Mohamedou Salahi the second time. I wanted to ask him about information he gave (under duress) about Abdul Latif Nasser. He could have wept or been angry or defensive or lashed out, but instead (as you can hear in episode 4), he just laughed. In the course of the interview, he even said thoughtful and empathetic things about a different man who provided evidence against him, which of course was part of the reason why he himself got tortured. I remember walking away from that interview dazed about how humble, how graceful this man was. One of the kindest actions I've ever seen in my life, and maybe ever will."
Radiolab is one of the most respected brands in the business. Working there is also extremely collaborative. "Everything, even the simplest promo, goes through draft after draft after draft, changing hands a number of times along the way from the reporter to the producer to another producer to the editor to the sound designer and so on. It takes us months, even sometimes as in the case of the The Other Latif series years, to make an hour. It's a slow process, distilling information down, which means we make fewer stories but we take bigger bets."
Latif says the best advice he can give is to work with good people. "People who have skills that you don't, who bring life experience to the table that you don't have. People who can see the potential of a good idea, and people who don't feel bad telling you an idea is bad. People who - when your eyes inevitably start to wander to newer shinier stories - can remind you why you cared about this story in the first place. People who will find ways to invest their brains and hands and hearts in the work. This is a team sport, no doubt about it."
All the best,
Paul
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LISTEN NOW: Radiolab’s Latif Nasser always believed his name was unique, singular, completely his own. Until one day when he makes a bizarre and shocking discovery. He shares his name with another man: Abdul Latif Nasser, detainee 244 at Guantanamo Bay.
Listen on Apple Podcasts | Spotify